Curse

Uriel_Wolfblood · Feb 08, 2010, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Hey all, I'm trying to figure out a viable build for my ranger in HM. He is my main character and I'm starting to title grind. So I'm finally doing HM for the first serious time now and I'm noticing my builds that I used in NM are not nearly as effective in HM.

I'm not looking for specific builds per say, but rather what it is a ranger should be doing to support the team in HM. Do I want to pull out traps? Splinter Barrage? Barrage/Pet? These are all options I've considered. I H/H almost everything including dungeons, and I want to make sure I can continue to do so as painlessly as possible.

So please give me some input on what a Ranger should do for HM pve.

I have all the campaigns and EOTN, any skill suggestions are fine as I'm not limited in my selection there.

Thanks for the advice all.

iToasterHD · Feb 08, 2010, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Oh my god yes! Virtually the exact question I had, except I don't do the whole H/H thing. From experience Barrage is required, and other members use Great Dwarf Weapon on you. So people responding to the OP, please discuss builds that use other humans as well. I am interested in what you all have to say for both!

Life Bringing · Feb 08, 2010, 06:24 AM // 06:24

This plus this with SoH, castigation, and smite hex/condition. Put SoH on you and your pet and make shit explode.

iToasterHD · Feb 08, 2010, 06:38 AM // 06:38

I can't speak for Uriel, but I am more interested in actual ranger builds. Not mimic builds...

Life Bringing · Feb 08, 2010, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

I can't speak for Uriel, but I am more interested in actual ranger builds. Not mimic builds...

With some obscure exceptions that i'm too lazy to think about atm, everything a ranger can do in pve, something else can do better. Using a scythe is an exception however, because they use it considerably better than a derv.

Faure · Feb 08, 2010, 08:37 AM // 08:37

BHA+volley in HM imo.

Jestar · Feb 08, 2010, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I used to use

Apply Poison + BHA + Sloth Hunters + Dshot + Epidemic + Utility Skill + Lightning Reflexes + Rez/2nd Utility

Ugh · Feb 08, 2010, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Any variants of Barrage are only really effective if you have someone to tank.

Don't bother spreading weak conditions likee poison, bleeding, cripple, etc.

Don't use BHA unless you know there will be a few caster bosses that you'll need it for.

Don't form a build around interrupting; it's hard to interrupt consistently in HM. Throwing a rupt on your bar is okay, just don't dedicate yourself to it.

For general PvE, I would suggest something like:

[Triple Shot] [5e Bow Attack] [Needling Shot] [Glass Arrows {e}] [Asuran Scan] [Drunken Master or Optional] [Optional] [Optional]

Maintain Glass Arrows and Drunken Master. Cast Asuran Scan on foes that still have a large portion of health left. If they're alreadly almost dead, don't waste your energy. Use Triple Shot and your Optional Bow Attack for damage when their health is above 50%. Spam Needling Shot when it's below 50% (with Glass Arrows and Asuran Scan, Needling Shot will do about 81 armor ignoring damage per hit).

The first optional can be something like Keen Arrow, Arcing Shot, Crossfire, or whatever. It doesn't really matter. The last two optionals depend on the area you're going in. If there aren't any special skills I need, I usually just bring a rez and an interrupt.

Use with 12+1+1 expertise and 12+1 marks. Use a zealous bowstring and whatever type of bow you're in the mood for.

wilson · Feb 08, 2010, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Pets are a very strong alternative to the usual boring BHA and Barrage (even more boring) builds.

Pets receive death penalty in PvP, but not in PvE.
Pets in PvE take 33% less damage and deal 33% more damage in combat.
AL = Level × 3 + 20

Those are only 3 excellent arguments. For more info follow ths link: Wiki on pets.

With the propper build you can deal excellent single target damage. On top of that, Packhunters are a great platform for Splinter Weapon. The pet itself is great for Ancestor's Rage. Pet attacks plus the Ranger both trigger Barbs and Mark of Pain in addition to minion attacks.

Enraged Lunge
Spear of Fury
Blazing Spear
Utility
We Shall Return!/Sunspear Rebirth Signet/Resurrection Signet
Tiger's Fury/Never Rampage Alone
Utility
Comfort Animal

9 (8+1) Expertise
12 (10+1+1) Beast Mastery
12 Spear Mastery
2 Command

70 base AL +30 AL vs elemental damage
+5 AL/+30HP from the spear
+8 AL from the shield
+10 AL with the right mod on the shield
+30 HP from the shield
I usually run Radiant Insignias. Beast Master Insignia is a solid choice (+10 AL while pet is alive). Only superior rune allowed being a vigor.

Both the pet and the Ranger are heavily armored and resilient targets (remember 33% damage reduction for pets in PvE).

At 12 Best Mastery and 9 Expertise Enraged Lunge deals +42 damage plus a deep wound for 17 seconds for only 3 energy (after Expertise). All this on a 5 second recharge. Spear of Fury is an amazing follow up skill for Enraged Lunge, dealing +40 damage and giving you 6 strikes of adrenaline (@rank 12 allegiance) which instantly charges Blazing Spear which hits for +21 damage and 3 seconds of burning.

We Shall Return! is an awesome PvE rez.

Never Rampage Alone is a maintainable IAS (25 seconds duration on 20 seconds recharge @rank 10 sunspear title track) for 10 energy (after Expertise).

Comfort Animal is your main pet heal (+3 health regen from Never Rampage Alone from rank 8 sunspear upwards) and pet rez. Charm Animal is not needed anymore in PvE.

For the 1st utility slot I usually bring another attack skill (for the pet or myself). 2nd one of the many useful pet buffs. Sometimes Edge of Extinction is fun. Great Dwarf Weapon is another excellent choice (cast it on the pet).

You don't have to max PvE titles for this build to work.

As a weapon bring whatever spear makes you happy. Vampiric, Zealous, [insert random ele mod] or Sundering. Furious is not really needed. My preference being Vampiric (if your lazy you don't even have to weapon swap -> Never Rampage Alone).

It is a very hero friendly build (without PvE skills obviously).

The build works amazingly well with Sab Way and even in larger groups.

Orange Milk · Feb 08, 2010, 02:45 PM // 14:45

I typically use an Axe when I H/H. So I can tank and hold aggro. If you have real people then yes, "Great Dorf Weapon" is awsome placed on you. You can Barrage and KD half the mob at once. AT ONCE!!!!!

You must remember ther is no "One build for all PvE" you should find out what your opponets do and prepare for them. If you are facing undead take some smiting power. Facing things that are cold or plants, take some fire. ect ect. Too lazy to research and prepare for the task at hand? Then your to lazy to read this thread anyway so who cares what build I suggest.

I do this(build listed below) alot when I H/H. With People I typically have a bow with the most optimal build for the situation.

"Save Yourselves" - Luxon PvE only skill
Apply Posion
Triple Chop
Cyclone Axe
Whirling Attack - Sunspear PvE only Skill
Dorfin Stability - Dorf PvE only skill
Lightning Reflexes
Distracting Chop/Distracting Stike/melee interupt of your choice.

Attacking multiple foes at once gains you the ability to spam Whirling attack AND save yourselves. If you have the Discord necros then your apply posion makes it easier for them to spam discord. IF you dont have the discords then take something else, like a deep wound or a another interupt or a rez sig or nothing and be like "Screw you HM I'm gonna kick your ass with only 7 skills, beatch"

It's PvE and there are rez shrines and and kinds of sweets for health and reducing DP so take a SUPERIOR rune, be it an Expertise or a Marksmanship. Most of the time in this world we live in "More" of something is better. Yes you have "less" Health, but like I said, it's PvE it's easy and ANet tests all part of PvE with two drunk monkeys from the San Diego(means "a whales vagina" in spanish) zoo and they get through and so can you.

I know it's "Dwarf" but I like saying "Dorf" better.

Uriel_Wolfblood · Feb 08, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I'm loving all the suggestions guys. I really like the scythe beast build, I've been trying a barrage/pet build, but a conjure/barrage sounds fun too. Thanks for all the tips guys, I really appreciate it.

Time to go test some builds

Yasmine · Feb 08, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

I do this(build listed below) alot when I H/H. With People I typically have a bow with the most optimal build for the situation.

"Save Yourselves" - Luxon PvE only skill
Apply Posion
Triple Chop
Cyclone Axe
Whirling Attack - Sunspear PvE only Skill
Dorfin Stability - Dorf PvE only skill
Lightning Reflexes
Distracting Chop/Distracting Stike/melee interupt of your choice.

Attacking multiple foes at once gains you the ability to spam Whirling attack AND save yourselves. If you have the Discord necros then your apply posion makes it easier for them to spam discord. IF you dont have the discords then take something else, like a deep wound or a another interupt or a rez sig or nothing and be like "Screw you HM I'm gonna kick your ass with only 7 skills, beatch"

Why not drop in FGJ?

MaaKotka · Feb 08, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Any variants of Barrage are only really effective if you have someone to tank.

Don't bother spreading weak conditions likee poison, bleeding, cripple, etc.

Don't use BHA unless you know there will be a few caster bosses that you'll need it for.

I agree on these.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Don't form a build around interrupting; it's hard to interrupt consistently in HM. Throwing a rupt on your bar is okay, just don't dedicate yourself to it.

I agree that interrupting isn't very useful in pve, but it really isn't hard. Monsters are extremely predictable and you can easily land your interrupt to a skill you want to interrupt even in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

For general PvE, I would suggest something like:

[Triple Shot] [5e Bow Attack] [Needling Shot] [Glass Arrows {e}] [Asuran Scan] [Drunken Master or Optional] [Optional] [Optional]

Maintain Glass Arrows and Drunken Master. Cast Asuran Scan on foes that still have a large portion of health left. If they're alreadly almost dead, don't waste your energy. Use Triple Shot and your Optional Bow Attack for damage when their health is above 50%. Spam Needling Shot when it's below 50% (with Glass Arrows and Asuran Scan, Needling Shot will do about 81 armor ignoring damage per hit).

The first optional can be something like Keen Arrow, Arcing Shot, Crossfire, or whatever. It doesn't really matter. The last two optionals depend on the area you're going in. If there aren't any special skills I need, I usually just bring a rez and an interrupt.

Use with 12+1+1 expertise and 12+1 marks. Use a zealous bowstring and whatever type of bow you're in the mood for.

People should really consider zojun's and point blank shot in glass arrows builds. At 14 expertise they are +38 armor ignoring damage on top of your normal bow damage and whatever buffs you have on 3 sec recharge. It is very easy to see 100+ numbers on HM with those skills very constantly. Compared to keen arrow which is strongest attacks you suggested on your specs at 13 marks it does +40 damage on critical and on 6 sec recharge where point blank/zojun's do +38 unconditionally on 3 sec recharge. They have half range, but that isn't problem in pve where positioning hardly matters.

When playing glass arrows build in pve I run something like
glass arrows, point blank shot, zojun's shot, drunken master, savage shot and 3 optionals, where can be triple shot, ebon damage ward, asuran scan, capture sigs, etc.

Ugh · Feb 08, 2010, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Expert's Dexterity and Prepared Shot can make some other turret builds. They're not as effective (the only real advantage is getting more free PvE slots), but they're nice when Glass Arrows gets boring.

[Triple Shot] [Zojun's Shot] [Point Blank Shot] [Read The Wind] [Asuran Scan] [Expert's Dexterity {E}] [Optional] [Optional]

[Prepared Shot {E}] [Penetrating Attack] [Sundering Attack] [Optional Bow Attack] [Read The Wind] [Asuran Scan] [Optional] [Optional]

Use both with a Zealous Flatbow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaaKotka

I agree that interrupting isn't very useful in pve, but it really isn't hard. Monsters are extremely predictable and you can easily land your interrupt to a skill you want to interrupt even in HM.

Yea, but interrupting by reflex is difficult and the faster casting means your prediction has to be pretty much impeccable.

Quote:

Compared to keen arrow which is strongest attacks you suggested on your specs at 13 marks it does +40 damage on critical and on 6 sec recharge where point blank/zojun's do +38 unconditionally on 3 sec recharge. They have half range, but that isn't problem in pve where positioning hardly matters.

Point Blank Shot and Zojun's Shot are good, but I would only suggest using if you plan on using both and alternating between them. In the Glass Arrows build I listed, you just buff up and go 1-2-3-3-3, so it's not really worth running up to your target to get a bit more damage on one skill.

iToasterHD · Feb 08, 2010, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I have been experimenting with Triple Shot and Glass Arrows. Not exactly thrilled at the attack options, still playing around though.

I used to use Point Blank and Zojun's Shot a lot. Back then I used BHA as the Elite and Read the Wind. However, I don't see why one would use Expert's Dexterity when the two primary attacks are Expertise. I'd think Glass Arrows is the obvious choice.

As far as Barrage. I suppose there are some situations in which it can be great, but from my experience it is an awful skill. I have been looking for something similar to taking down key targets incredibly fast. Your frontline is halted by enemies' frontline, casters are kiting and casting to damage key targets, Ranger can sit back and focus on killing that one nuisance. Or pull out Point Blank and Zojun's and jump into the front line dishing out huge numbers. Glass Arrows, either way, seems like the best choice thus far.

Valerius · Feb 09, 2010, 02:11 AM // 02:11

I figured I would share my build, even though it's very similar to the ones already listed.

Expertise 16 / Marks 13 / Prot Prayers 3

Triple Shot, Savage Shot, Point Blank, Zojun Shot, Glass Arrows {E}, Drunken Master, Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, Rebirth.

It's been working great and I recommend you try it out!

MaaKotka · Feb 09, 2010, 08:47 AM // 08:47

In the discussion between zojun's/point blank shot and needling shot it is do you want to bring ias or don't.

When you are using needling shot, you need 2 strong leading bow attacks for needling to be effective. When you think about strong bow attacks there really isn't lots of skills to choose from. They are either 10e skills with longish recharge, 5e skills with some conditional for extra damage or point blank/zojun's shot. So I usually end up taking zojun's/point blank shot and for third slot it is either needling or ias where I see needling to not needed and ias helping more. Rest of the bar is in both cases filled with damage boosts and optional skills.

About half range limit with point blank/zojun's shot. You need only run close once and that half range isn't even that close. It is little bit closer than spear range and then you can just spam your attacks.

MaaKotka · Feb 09, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I did some testing at master of damage considering point blank/zojuns shot against needling shot.

When killing only single target needling shot wins achieving 130-140 dps using triple shot -> pb shot -> needling repeated until master died.

Using only pb shot -> zojuns -> autoattack and repeated that until master died got pretty constant 100 dps

going pb -> zojuns -> triple -> pb -> zojuns got master to die and achieved around 120-130 dps

All these were on 14 expertise 13 marks, customised zealous flatbow 15>50 mod and buffs were asuran scan, glass arrows and 32% ias from drunken master.

Then I tried some constand dps and found out that best constant dps with needling shot was achieved using pb -> zojun -> needling until dead and repeated that. After around 5-6 kills I ran out of energy and achieved 90 dps. Asuran scan was reapplied after every kill and glass arrows didn't have time to ran out so it wasn't reapplied.

Going pb -> zojuns -> autoattack repeatedly and applying asuran scan after every kill got the same 90 dps, but I was still around 10-15 energy when glass arrows ran out.

You could add triple shot to both of these builds but it would make you run out of energy faster in both cases and it doesn't add much damage. Also you can't replace pb or zojuns with triple shot without sacrificing some dps because of triple shot's long recharge.

As a concusion both builds do pretty much same dps where needling is heavier to your energy and has a chance to lose its dps when someone heals your target above 50%.

Tenebrae · Feb 09, 2010, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Well whatever Ugh said on #9 Works for a DPS Ranger. Also anyone interested in using BM att line should bring GDW for its pet , it is really helpful .

maxxfury · Feb 09, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Cant they just remove the pve aftercast for pene/sund shots! gah!